'Viewpoint' on ITV and Noel Clarke

So explain why the sex scenes are there Doodledog if not because the public demands them. It's a bit egotistical to think that your personal preferences are entirely responsible for the output of the film and TV industry. I doubt if GNers figure very highly in the consideration of what is shown.
Of course the men are responsible for their actions, but surely the protection and care of young women is the responsibility of us all. And the expectation that such scenes are a necessary part of an acting career is unacceptable.

Can’t believe the disgusting views on here. 20 women have come forward. These women should be believed. Wake up people!

i don't understand how people can be so outraged at being denied seeing a tv show, even the finale, but are unmoved about repeated disrespect, humiliation, bullying acts to women in junior roles, over many years.

welbeck

i don't understand how people can be so outraged at being denied seeing a tv show, even the finale, but are unmoved about repeated disrespect, humiliation, bullying acts to women in junior roles, over many years.

Well said. People should show some respect to the women stating they’ve been abused and stop moaning about a TV show. Maybe actually read The Guardian article and then comment.

I only speak for myself, trisher, rather than make assumptions that are not backed up with figures. Of course I can't explain why sex scenes are there! I can give an opinion, but it would be just that, the same as yours is.

FWIW, I would guess that film makers try to appeal to as many people as possible, so in most big-budget drama there is some sex, some action scenes, some romance and so on. That is not the same as people 'demanding' sex scenes. People went to the cinema in the days when actors had to have a foot on the floor when a couple were in bed.

I agree that the protection of young women is important, which is why it is 100% the right thing to hold the perpetrators of assault, abuse or other bad behaviour to account and use the full weight of the law when necessary. I don't think it is fair to those young women to shift the blame from the perpetrators to 'the public' for not switching off when a naked body appears on their screen in case it gives implicit approval to its inclusion.

Also, your dismissal of Gransnetters is rather dismissive. We are a multi-faceted group, and I'm sure that individually and collectively we do make up a significant part of various audiences, and as such will be of interest to programme and film makers.

I predicted whodunnit in the first episode. He could've worked it out in one episode by just looking around rather than through the telescope.

The argument still rages about Noel Clarke and the fact that these women should be believed. The fact that even Bafta have said they did not have enough information from these women to cancel the presentation of the Bafta on the night proves that not enough information has been correctly gathered to announce a guilty verdict on N.C. In that case why should some of us GNs be told we should find him guilty.
Also who are the people on GN who are saying he calls his wife vagina or vag at home has he made a public statement anywhere to say that because I have not seen it.

In regard of the sex scenes that film makers put in their budget dramas it is what people have become accustomed to watch and most of them are not too raunchy.
In my opinion I watched the programme Naked Attraction only to see what it was about and I found it to be disgusting
how individuals went on there to try and get a date with someone. Is it the day and age when full nudity is acceptable
and to fawn and slobber over the human body and also speculate what they might like to do to certain parts of the body once they know the person I found ghastly and nasty.
With such outrageous programmes like that is it any wonder many people seem to have that sort of behaviour on the brain.

I hardly watch television so I’ve never seen this actor. I know nothing about him. Not even the BAFTAS. I’ve only read snippets about all this in the newspapers that last day or two.

Why apologise so profusely if you have not done anything wrong ?

He’s now toast I would think.

3nanny6

The argument still rages about Noel Clarke and the fact that these women should be believed. The fact that even Bafta have said they did not have enough information from these women to cancel the presentation of the Bafta on the night proves that not enough information has been correctly gathered to announce a guilty verdict on N.C. In that case why should some of us GNs be told we should find him guilty.
Also who are the people on GN who are saying he calls his wife vagina or vag at home has he made a public statement anywhere to say that because I have not seen it.

In regard of the sex scenes that film makers put in their budget dramas it is what people have become accustomed to watch and most of them are not too raunchy.
In my opinion I watched the programme Naked Attraction only to see what it was about and I found it to be disgusting
how individuals went on there to try and get a date with someone. Is it the day and age when full nudity is acceptable
and to fawn and slobber over the human body and also speculate what they might like to do to certain parts of the body once they know the person I found ghastly and nasty.
With such outrageous programmes like that is it any wonder many people seem to have that sort of behaviour on the brain.

BAFTA wanted more information than could be provided in time. Since the award ceremony more information has been provided. And it’s not about a guilty verdict ffs it’s about enough credible information to cause concern - that’s how come people get suspended from their jobs before a full investigation is carried out but enough concern to take action to manage risk to others. And disgusting voyeuristic ‘entertainment’ like Naked Attractions ( and much other reality TV) has nothing to do with the the issues underpinning the NC case and the relationship between powerful men and actresses that are being discussed here.

Lifted from Twitter

If 20 men told me my kitchen was on fire I'd grab a fire extinguisher and run to see what I could do.
If 20 women told me my kitchen was on fire I'd await the outcome of an as yet undescribed due process before taking a view on what further action might be necessary.

3nanny6

The argument still rages about Noel Clarke and the fact that these women should be believed. The fact that even Bafta have said they did not have enough information from these women to cancel the presentation of the Bafta on the night proves that not enough information has been correctly gathered to announce a guilty verdict on N.C. In that case why should some of us GNs be told we should find him guilty.
Also who are the people on GN who are saying he calls his wife vagina or vag at home has he made a public statement anywhere to say that because I have not seen it.

In regard of the sex scenes that film makers put in their budget dramas it is what people have become accustomed to watch and most of them are not too raunchy.
In my opinion I watched the programme Naked Attraction only to see what it was about and I found it to be disgusting
how individuals went on there to try and get a date with someone. Is it the day and age when full nudity is acceptable
and to fawn and slobber over the human body and also speculate what they might like to do to certain parts of the body once they know the person I found ghastly and nasty.
With such outrageous programmes like that is it any wonder many people seem to have that sort of behaviour on the brain.

Me thinks thou doth protest too much ?

I couldn’t watch the tv hub however, I have found a very short summary of episode 5 on the radiotimes.com website.

suziewoozie

Lifted from Twitter

If 20 men told me my kitchen was on fire I'd grab a fire extinguisher and run to see what I could do.
If 20 women told me my kitchen was on fire I'd await the outcome of an as yet undescribed due process before taking a view on what further action might be necessary.

I am so going to steal this

If the series was still in production then I think it would be the right thing to do to stop it.

However, this series has already been filmed and four episodes broadcast. It makes no difference whatsoever if the final episode is shown.

Eloethan, I was surprised when itv announced the final episode would only be shown on its hub. On reflection, I think that was the right decision. It seems that NC’s behaviour has been an open secret in ‘the industry’ for over 17 years. I suspect itv legal and other senior employees were well aware of the allegations which increase daily.
It’s a statement that sexual harassment, bullying, the demeaning, humiliating treatment of women in their employment will not be ignored.

I’ve read some of the mumsnet thread on this. It’s cheered me to see that younger women seem more well informed about the severity of the allegations. There are comments from women who worked with him and confirm he’s a bullying sexual harasser

Iam64

I’ve read some of the mumsnet thread on this. It’s cheered me to see that younger women seem more well informed about the severity of the allegations. There are comments from women who worked with him and confirm he’s a bullying sexual harasser

In addition to the minimising / disbelief that is always a part of any GN thread on any form of violence against women ( but especially sexual) I’ve been profoundly depressed by the inability of some posters to show any understanding at all as to issues around risk management/ duty of care/ safeguarding once allegations have been made. But the two aspects tend to go together.

If anyone thinks the biggest issue at stake is that an episode of a drama show won't be shown on terrestrial TV, the world has become a very odd place.

I don’t think it is the biggest issue - not by any means - but I’m not sure that it was necessary, and not sure what was achieved by pulling the episode, other than making a gesture of solidarity with the victims. I can’t help thinking that that gesture would have been better made by casting someone else in the role in the first place.

Doodledog

I don’t think it is the biggest issue - not by any means - but I’m not sure that it was necessary, and not sure what was achieved by pulling the episode, other than making a gesture of solidarity with the victims. I can’t help thinking that that gesture would have been better made by casting someone else in the role in the first place.

But given they hadn’t, the gesture was better than showing it on the main channel wasn’t it ? ITV had to deal with it as things were not how they should ( perhaps) have been, they did . I’m just surprised we’re still commenting on that decision quite frankly.

Yes, I think I am often out of step when it comes to TV programming decisions so it is probably I who am wrong ?.

I never approve of bumping regular programmes for sport, or of pulling dramas dealing with issues that are in the news (such as murder mysteries that have similarities with ongoing cases). Unless they might sway a jury, it strikes me as a bit pointless, as friends and family of victims are hardly likely to be watching TV anyway.

I know that those views are minority, though, so I’m probably not the best barometer.

I don't think many people are actually questioning or undervaluing the women or their statements, what they are saying is that a society that judges instantly and without proper recourse to defence and response is a dangerous society. One of the reasons we do this is because we know in the past women have been victims of such treatment and we have no wish to see it introduced once again.
As for the kitchen on fire statement.
If someone who had just fitted your kitchen and to whom you owed money reported your kitchen was on fire you might well wonder how the fire had started.

Nice one ITV. What was the point of putting it on the Hub instead. What difference did that make, just a tad hypocritical shall we say.
I never watch ITV, and only watched this programme because the leading actress is from my neck of the woods. After watching the first four episodes I wanted to know the outcome.
I am deaf, wear a hearing aid, and always have sub-titles on the screen so that my TV is not too loud. Any catch up programme be it from BBC or ITV or Channel 4 or any of the others never has sub-titles for some reason.
So thank you ITV, a pointless gesture in my opinion, and it completely ruined it for me.
You may think that this is a selfish attitude to have, but what did ITV achieve by changing channels ?

If someone who had just fitted your kitchen and to whom you owed money reported your kitchen was on fire you might well wonder how the fire had started.
I’m probably being dim, but I’m not sure I follow this analogy. Who is the metaphorical firestarter?

A society that does not challenge this behaviour is also a dangerous one. The victims commissioner has recently described the system for prosecuting rape as not fit for purpose, only 1.5 % of cases that went to court produced a charge. In other words rape is pretty much legal. Most of this behaviour wouldnt even meet the criteria for a court case, woman are just expected to tolerate it.
I think we need to be calling out this behaviour immediately, I think some workplaces can create a culture which is toxic, and from some of the information available it seems that has been the case.