Hopeless dilemma

kittylester I think you are right in pointing out that there are many very positive aspects in this little boy's life and it is probably better to also bear those in mind and not to "catastrophise" the situation. Children are very resilient but they quickly pick up on adults' anxieties and this may not be helpful to the situation.

I absolutely agree with Alea's wise and sensitive post and I will in future try and reflect on her words before rushing to put in my two penn'orth - as I hope others will.

I dont want you to leave Luckygirl.
I will back out and leave you to the thread.

Lucky girl Don't lose heart. Lots of us empathise and understand your sad situation. Don't let the self centred spouting of one member detract from the huge support you have from all the kind friends you have on here.
I feel for your poor sil as well as your dd, they must be going through such torment over this problem.
(((Hugs)))

Thank you. It is difficult to unpick the basic issue from all the business complications that could catapult them into bankruptcy if this guy walked - he is such a stubborn man and has not spoken to his sister for 40 years because they fell out over something.

There are, as some have pointed out, some positives in the situation. The lad on the receiving end has dealt with it by a bout of crying and hitting for 3 hours on the day it happened. He woke the next morning and has not mentioned it since, and it will be interesting to see how he responds if he sees his GF.

The older boy is another thing - he is more intelligent and has been thinking it through and saying such things as "I did not know adults were allowed to do that."

There will be an answer to all this in the end, as the boys have such lovely parents.

soon I don't think there are only a few people who disagree with you, I think it is the majority. Without going back and re-reading it all I think you said a couple of days ago that you were leaving this thread and then didn't. You have said it again so please recognise when you 'are in a hole' and 'stop digging'.

To whoever suggested that it is the Christians who are self righteous I think you are mistaking those who profess to be Christians with those who simply are but do not shout about it.

Alea I don't want to 'run for cover' I want to lash out and tell them they are talking rubbish but I do try to contain myself!

I'm not, in any way trying to excuse this awful mans behaviour but people with diabetes [especially those who can be in denial of it and don't manage it very well] can be very prone to mood swings. I wonder if this person is one of them? I was never in favour of it actually becoming illegal to smack children but, in cases like this I wish there was a legal comeback. My daughter was smacked by her friends mother when she was very young, and she could never understand why someone was allowed to do that to her. I'm still angry about it thirty years later. I don't know what the answer is to all this but you are a very wise and kind person Lucky girl and, if anyone can negotiate this difficult situation you can. You're hurting for both your child and your grandchild at the moment though, and that's wearing you down . Be strong .

Thank you Nonnie and *Tegan.

Nonnie I take your point about the christian aspect of one of my posts. It is just extraordinary to see that those who make the most noise about it (and distort many threads on that basis0 are the ones with the least empathy. I do know that there are many christians who just quietly get on with their lives, doing good by stealth and I applaud them.

Tegan - we have been considering the diabetic element and wondering if he is losing it a bit. As to your comments about your DD being smacked, the fact that you are still angry about it so many years later is a reflection of how I am feeling at present. You are right that it is wearing me down! But we will all rise above it in time.

My daughter came home in tears saying 'mummy, you told me people weren't allowed to smack other people children' so she had the double whammy of thinking that I'd lied to her as well. When I confronted her friends mother about it, she said 'I saw you walking towards me..you were wearing a black tee shirt and your face was as black as your top'. I don't lose my temper very often so, when I do, it really shocks people!

My DH who has Alzheimer's "loses it "very quickly now but that wasn't his nature until recently and you say this man has always been difficult. However some traits do worsen with age and illness so it could be a factor.

Sorry to follow a red herring but I've just read the last few posts on the thread. As soontobe has left the thread (so she says) I am probably too late to reply to her claim to not mince her words with a few unminced words myself. She shouldn't mind, she likes straight talking (but she doesn't need to comment on it all).

1) Only half a dozen? Most, more likely, if you could count all those who keep a low profile to avoid attracting her attention, or who DO mince their words and keep quiet when reprimanded by someone who clearly believes that they are acting for the best in recommending their own recipe for all things, without looking from the point of view of the other person. That is what empathy means, and charity and tact and consideration - it means moving outside your own little bubble and NOT applying one-size-fits-all from a position of total ignorance of the individual and unfamiliarity with the situation.

2) Proselytising - I am aware that the prime concern of the disciples and of all the evangelical churches since was/is to proclaim the Gospel to those who did not have the privilege of hearing it direct from Jesus. BUT people on here are not ignorant of the Good News. Many have heard and heeded. Many have even studied it in depth. They have learnt dead languages, read obscure contemporary texts, excavated ancient sites, compared the musings of learned scholars written over centuries, studied the way different groups have interpreted the Bible afresh and formed new denominations to worship in a different way.

3) The GN guidelines are against sermons. A sermon doesn't have to be an hour long, listened to on hard seats while hoping the Sunday joint isn't overcooked. It can be very short.

4) It is counter productive to keep on pushing people in the direction you would like them to go. My own reaction to someone trying relentlessly to influence me or to convert me to their choice of a course of action is to instinctively dig in my heels and resist. I think there are a lot of Gransnet members who are the same. Less is more. More is too much. Silence is golden.

I'm just very surprised that the daughter didn't deal with it immediately it happened - and I mean deal with it, vehemently, angrily, and in a pulling-no-punches manner, rather than go crying to her mother on the phone. I know my daughter would have immediately hit the roof if anyone had hit one of her children in such a manner. And sod the family finances. They have to come second to a small child's emotional well being.

Trying to diagnose the man with some illness seems to me clutching straws.

I used to post much more often, Luckygirl, but there just seems to be a trickle of bitterness that runs through some threads and this deters me somewhat.
I felt comfortable in sharing a problem or two as well, and could rely on constructive and empathetic (as well as sympathetic) support, which helped me so much. I feel rather reluctant to post anything along similar lines now.
It wasn't just about problems, worries and fears, though. Gransnet used to be more of a community of women (and a wee clutch of men) who contributed sensible and well-thought-out threads and comments.
If it wasn't for the really very fine people that I've already met with and will continue to meet with, I think Gransnet would be history for me.

Everyone is still going as they were, including the op, post 10.25am, so there is no need for me to keep quiet.

I still have advice to give. Even if some people think it is twaddle, it doesnt matter. Others may not. It doesnt matter if people give advice that lots of people think is twaddle. Because there still may be some who find it useful.
If anyone doesnt want to take my advice, fine.

Because it isnt just 1 person a poster talks to. It is to the thousands or
however many that watch this site as well.
And if any of them ever happen to be in the same sort of situation, here is my advice, which people are perfectly entitled to ignore.

In an emergency
1.There are 24 hours in a day. A person can drive through the night and meet up with someone if it helps them, and if they have the money.

2. In emergency situations, if they havent got the money, they might be able to borrow it. People would be able to see that it is an emergency.

3. Ideally, work, if running a business, needs to be organised in such a way that there are deputies. Difficult in these times I know, but ideally, always think about who can be left holding the can so to speak if there is an emergency.

An op does not own a thread on here. It is said many times.
Having said that, it is right behavior to have empathy, charity, tact and compassion.

But also, many other people can benefit from a thread.
On this site, there is not allowed to be a thread about a thread. So there is no oppurtunity to post again about a certain subject at a different time.

Not all people are going to agree with me. No one ever agree with another person completely, such is life. But if others can learn something or be helped by a thread, then they should be.

Elegran, I will bear in mind some points on your post.

"Very hard, as none of us find confrontation easy."



I would have thought self restraint in this situation would be far more difficult!

Do all contributions to GN threads have to well watered down with this "milk of human kindness"? If so, enjoy your group love-in.

Luckygirl I can imagine how upset and angry both you and your DD must be feeling about what has happened. A truly horrible situation

I do agree with Jingl that the best and most logical thing to do would have been for your DD to have expressed her feelings and views on the spot and in no uncertain terms but sometimes you can just be stunned into silence and inaction. Also some people are just better than others at dealing with confrontation.

I hope that when the in-laws are back that your DD is able to address the situation in a way that she can be happy with.

This thread has made me quite sad, not just at the thought of the horrible action of the grandfather but at the way it has been hijacked. Some posters really do seem to want to make it all about themselves on every thread.

I agree with milk of human kindness. Very important.
But posters think that saying a sil should come home early is unkind? Oh dear.

Soon2B you are incredible
Or perhaps youre a very clever troll?

Yes -I think they do Jingl - and any need to challenge should be couched in kind terms. It is what matters most in the world.

Why didn't my DD read the riot act at the time? - because she was trying to calm and comfort a very distressed child and did not want to give him more to be disturbed about - i.e. adults shouting at each other. She did the right thing in prioritizing her child's well-being above her need to let of steam by taking him away from the situation - I applaud her for that. It cannot have been easy. As you say, self-restraint was the more difficult option, but she took it for the sake of her children.

There has been a degree of resolution of this situation and later I will pm those who have kindly contributed their useful contributions to this thread.

As for soon leaving the thread.....!

What a shame that this forum is being dominated in this way. I am going to become another lurker until this is resolved - life is just to short!

(There's been a lot of 'feeding the troll' here, which hasn't helped! Ignoring is the best policy, I think )

Luckygirl I think it's wonderful your DD felt able to share her anger with you - it may not have helped to have directly confronted an angry, aggressive man on the spot, and as he is part of their lives anyway, she would know she had plenty of opportunity to tackle the situation at a later moment. Her priority was removing her little son to safety - absolutely right - and dealing with his distress.

I'm glad your latest message indicates some resolution.

Oh, for God's sake! Can't you have a bit of understanding for someone who just doesn't see reality in quite the same way as perhaps the majority do?! Enough of this self-pitying lack of decent empathy. Why not ignore posts that sometimes seem to fall a little short of reality?

I think your little grandson might well have benefitted from seeing and hearing his mum stand up for him against someone who had hurt him.

soon as I said very early on the fact that so many people have no such experience is good because it means this is relatively uncommon but if you had the slightest idea of what this family is going through or even a drop of empathy you would stop right now (as you have said you will). You have no idea how to deal with a man such as this and making such ill-thought out comments is not helpful, it is destructive. Please just stop digging.

The diabetes link to mood swings could be significant. I spent all my married life watching family members tiptoeing round DFIL (type 1) and his moods. He could destroy a family occasion in five minutes!!

Fortunately he was not physically abusive but he was so much the centre of his own universe he was difficult to like.

I stood up to him every time he tried to throw a spanner in the works. Family life would have been intolerable otherwise.

Luckygirl, I'm afraid your DD and SiL are going to have to deal with it in foreceful terms and not be cowed by his possible derailing of their business affairs.

I'm sure most of you have heard the phrase 'Don't feed the monster' now is the time to REALLY put it into practice.