Girl Guide leader expelled from post.

So you dont think that parents, carers and foster carers who thought they had signed up for single sex groups for whatever reason. should know that the groups are in fact mixed but they will not be told which groups are mixed and the groups that are will not be treated as mixed?

Worries WERE expressed higher up.

I can't work out what it is that I'm missing here. Whether we agree with it or not, some males are more comfortable living as female and vice versa. To my knowledge, they don't tend to flip-flop between genders.

If a boy lives as a girl, and join a Rainbows/Brownies etc group, does she then become a lesbian and put the other girls at risk? Or is it feared that although she lives as a girl, and has been accepted into a group as a girl, as soon as she comes near other girls, the male hormones take over and she become a raging sex pest/potential rapist?

If she joins the troupe as a girl, and is accepted as a girl, and participates as a girl, then why does anyone need to know that she started life as a boy.

I wonder how any of you would feel if your much loved grandsons were effectively seen as a safeguarding risk if he decides he is more comfortable in a girls' skin and was excluded from activities because the rest of his peers were girls? Would you still be saying he shouldn't be welcomed into a group because he wasn't born with the right genetalia? Would you be thinking that he posed a risk to girls?

One of the women leaders who signed the open letter, and was subsequently banned, ran to tell her story on Mumsnet. Calls herself AgnesBadenPowell. thread here

FarNorth read that thread. (Although no doubt you have already done so)

To my knowledge, they don't tend to flip-flop between genders.
Then you are not up to date with selfID

If a boy lives as a girl, and join a Rainbows/Brownies etc group, does she then become a lesbian and put the other girls at risk?
A boy can never become a lesbian. Lesbians are female same sex couples regardless of how they dress or "express"

If she joins the troupe as a girl, and is accepted as a girl, and participates as a girl, then why does anyone need to know that she started life as a boy.
Because that makes it a mixed sex group and GG are lying about being single sex

Or is it feared that although she lives as a girl, and has been accepted into a group as a girl, as soon as she comes near other girls, the male hormones take over and she become a raging sex pest/potential rapist?
Avoiding rape is not the only reason why a girl may want to chose a single sex group!

If I had a grandson who wanted to wear dresses and call himself Bertha I would have no problem with that. I would not however support notions that HIS rights trump girls rights: especially as that is quite a mysogynistic way to behave

And it's all over twitter. Helen@MsHelenWatts.

notanan2 especially as that is quite a mysogynistic way to behave Can I ask who you think is being mysoginistic? The boy identifying as a girl or the leaders introducing the policy?

Do you really think the Girl Guides Association cannot be trusted with the safety of the girls in their care? You really think that you know more about this than they do? Do you not think that this has all been carefully considered, advice from experts in the field taken, over a period of time? Ridiculous.

Someone has to make these decisions, and the responsibility is not taken lightly.

Transgirls who think that ploughing through girls single sex spaces is the only way to "affirm" their identity are being mysogynistic. And very "male"

Transboys dont often behave like that re boys only spaces, go figure!

notanan2, good post.
Brownies are very young children, 7-11 years I believe. A boy dressed as a Brownie, sharing sleeping facilities, toilet facilities, and washing facilities, is still a boy. He may identify as a girl, but until hormone treatment and surgery takes place, he is still a boy. It is totally wrong to subject little girls to the latest politically correct ideology. If a boy/young man wishes to undergo sex change when he is old enough to understand the issues, that’s up to him. But it’s not up the Girl Guiding Association or the little boys parents to expect the whole of society, including the Girl Guides to change their behaviour in order to facilitate them.

Why do I hate the phrase "Go figure"?

He may identify as a girl, but until hormone treatment and surgery takes place, he is still a boy.

You cant change sex. That is a dangerous lie that children are being told.

If he has hormonal puberty blockers and hormones: he is a boy who has been medically castrated.

If he has "top surgery" he is a boy who has had cosmetic surgery.

If he has "bottom surgery" he is a boy who has had his penis inverted.

sexchangeregret.com/27-year-old-man-regrets-having-surgery/?fbclid=IwAR2tl9j0hCdvvvkIBcvZjEAdrw28fUeKdv_-PsGSi1dqxZ0nh1DkBSWXgTo

You’re right nonanan2, a DNA test would reveal a person’s gender however they have changed their body through surgery and hormone treatment.

But I don’t have a problem if someone wants to put themself through all that and then appear alongside me for example, in a female changing room or toilet facility. I do have a problem if a man decides to self identify as a female today, and appears alongside me in a changing room, complete with all his tackle.

With regard to little children, aged 7-11 I do not believe they should have to grapple with this kind of scenario, so when they visit the toilet whilst at Brownies they should not be confronted by a child with a body that is clearly not like theirs, clearly male.
This is trampling over the rights of the many in favour of the few.

No doubt the volunteers responsible for running the Brownies, Guides etc will decide that if they have to subjugate their opinions and feelings about this matter they will decide to walk away, with a major loss to British society.

I wonder how the Girl Guiding movement is interpreting this in other countries. It would be interesting to know.

Notanan2, I agree that this nonsense that is being peddled to young children is dangerous. A true transgender person does not need to be educated, they know, and they decide to do something about it or not at a later stage. The right stage is not early childhood.
Another politically correct agenda is sweeping the country. How long before we have adults saying they were misled over this and wish they had never changed sex. It reminds me of the ‘me too’ movement and the ‘historical abuse’ movement. Only last week a man was jailed for 18 years for perpetuating historical abuse lies.

How long before we have adults saying they were misled over this and wish they had never changed sex.

This is already happening!
Bath Spa University but a stop on research by a surgeon who is seeing an increase in people requesting detransition surgery. Reason: it might cause certain groups to campaign against the university!

There are HORRIFIC side effects to women taking Testosterone, hair loss being one of the less serious ones. These side effects are being played down to teens who feel uncomfortable in their skin and believe the hype that taking "T" will make everything magically better!

www.transgendertrend.com/lesbian-detransitioner-must-question-primary-solution/

Children are being chemically castrated. Having their future fertility affected. And encouraged to mutilate their bodies.

A disproportionate amount of teens who are being funnelled into "gender affirming" medications and surgeries are on the autistic spectrum.

It is so wrong

Autistic children often have a particularly hard time coping with puberty.

But instead of this being properly understood and supported, they are getting referred to gender clinics.

So you take a boy who may be struggling with masculine stereotypes, or finding puperty difficult. And you stick them on puperty blockers and say "there now youre a girl! All fixed" and insist they get into guides so that their gender is "affirmed"....
.... well those problems that caused them to be uncomfortable in their skin in the first place are still there under the surface. And will pop up again.

What a load of complete nonsense. Children( yes the clue is in the name) should be left alone to have fun. Some may be a little " different" T'was ever thus. Leave them alone.

If you dont believe in single sex organisations, why chose one for your trans identifying boy? Why not just chose scouts?

I wonder how any of you would feel if your much loved grandsons were effectively seen as a safeguarding risk if he decides he is more comfortable in a girls' skin

I would see my much-loved grandson as being just as much of a safeguarding risk, whatever he decided.- i.e. I'd hope he wasn't a risk but safeguarding needs to be applied regardless.

Safeguarding also protects against false accusations, by the way.

Good news all round!

I had not already read that thread Gonegirl. Thank you for the link.

I found another thread on Mumsnet, started by the person featured in the Daily Mail article at the start of this thread.
She is not Helen Watts, or 'Agnes Baden Powell' and she says :
"I appealed and the former Chief Guide who held the appeal concluded that I had not breached social media guidelines (I should jolly well hope not given that 9 people saw my post!) but that I was still refusing to follow GG policy (I gave the same statement - safeguarding comes first)."

She had posted in a very small private facebook group, not publicly, and did not breach social media guidelines.

Newsflash: there are transwomen out there who live openly and happily as transwomen without claiming rights to female only spaces. It is not essential to their existance.