How do I forget they exist?

JEMz it is difficult if not impossible for your daughter to be sincerely grateful when her self esteem is so horribly low (for whatever reason possibly because she is not as able as you who are obviously successful , and others around her).

I think the poor girl has suffered what she conceives of as terrible failures. She possibly needs a lot of praise regarding what she she is good at. There must be something!

JEM, as I said beware revealing your hurt on here. There are some excellent , caring replies and some people with nothing better to do that take a pop at you.
You know my feeling on the subject.

The wee boy and the lego sounds pretty grim but it's not about bloody lego is it!

So JEMz have you actually contacted your daughter yourself and asked to see your GS again, or is it still being done only through your mother and your partner? You really need to talk to her yourself.

And I still can't understand how you could buy him all that lego and not let him take at least some of it home. I think I can understand your DD going online and buying him some lego herself. She was probably feeling pretty hurt on his behalf.

Some on here say it's not about the lego, but I think that aspect of it speaks volumes tbh.

Talk to her yourself, calmly and reasonably. You are the grown up.

No one is "taking a pop Elvive. That would be horrible (and childish). Just being honest and trying to help.

Thank you so much CrazyH. I’m am hopeful that things will improve but also apprehensive about the next visit from Grandson, as always I’ll do my best to prevent challenges.

I don't understand what you find so difficult to understand about a GP buying toys to keep at their home for when GC come for a visit Gonegirl.

The OP's D went on line in front of her child and her mother to buy lego. I agree that this particular aspect speaks volumes, volumes about the OP's D's attitude.

Jemz,

Did you check with your dd before promising your gs he could take some legos home if he was a good boy at school?

That is a parent decision, not a grandparent one.

Your dd may have seen it as overriding her authority as a mother and you acting like a mother figure to her child, your grandchild

If you truly want to have a better relationship with your dd, stop going around to get more visitation with your gs.
Do not ask gs's father. Do not ask anybody in your family to ask your dd in your behalf, it is manipulative
I can see how your dd gets mad.

I agree with gone girl about the presents, it is mean to dangle the carrot in front of a child so you get to see him more

For goodness sake Hithere you would do well to read the entire OP and all of the subsequent posts made by the OP, then perhaps you wouldn't make such ill informed comments.

"It is mean to dangle the carrot in front of a child so you get to see him more"; really!!!! You must be referring to another thread as there is nothing in any of the OP's posts to substantiate this accusation.

I'm so sorry that your daughter treats you this way. I have the same problem. I haven't seen my grand-children for 3 years now or any of my children as my daughter has somehow turned them against me. We made the mistake of staying with them between houses after being childminders for 3 years! This showed her to be a VERY poor, neglectful parent indeed. It was as though her daugher was getting in the way of her career! Suggestion to my daughter that my grand-daughter really needed to socialise with others at a playgroup gave her all the ammunition she needed to stop me seeing my grand-daughter!!! What I can't forgive about the way my children are treating me is that they all knew i was suffering from depression when they decided to start all the 'issues' - whatever they are! Believe me, it's nothing to do with being a working or single mum as my children had my full attention until they were at secondary school and had both a father and step-father in close contact, both of whom they asked to give them away at their weddings. I'm afraid, sometimes we have to realise that it wasn't what we've done but that there is some unrealistic expectation that your children have and that they almost 'want' to claim they had a bad childhood to give them some sort of 'sob story'. Over the years, my middle daughter has had me up in front of Social Services being asked about my relationship with my husband of 33 years, has told her friends to make unpleasant comments to me at her wedding, has fallen out with both sets of her own in-laws, urinates in her boss' coffee if she doesn't get her own way, and boasts about it, expects my husband and I to be 'removals' and then tell us we're let "off the hook" when my husband actually has a heart attack, I could go on and on. In the end I had to stay away for my own well-being. I miss my grand-children and especially my own son, who tells me "I should, look after my grand children", even though he doesn't yet (as far as I know) have any and is just fighting his sister's corner. I take each day as it comes and mostly wish I'd never had any children these days! I feel for you but also feel that your daughter is a bully who feels she can use her child as a weapon. Maybe it's up to you to show her that she can't do that?

I think your daughter is lashing out at you, and this is because she is jealous of your relationship with your grandson.

You worked hard and did your best for her while being a working single mum. It sounds like she missed you very much and may have thrived better in a poor but happy home, with plenty of access to her mum.

Just a thought, and my opinion only.

She is a young mother, early twenties, is she? Having another baby, feeling hormonal. It seems to me that she is in a state, she sees you with the little lad and reminds her of the times she had/ didn't have with you, and the only way she can get to you is to use him as a pawn.

You are the adult in all this, can you not forge a better relationship with your daughter somehow? If that could happen then everything else would fall into place I think.

Either that or wait and offer help, just help, no toys, gifts, and no more flippin Lego, when new babe arrives.

Good luck, and play the long game.

Just a question! Us mils, mothers and grandparents, are only human. We do the best we can and make some mistakes along the way. For some reason not known to us, because we're just cut off without explanation in some cases, we're estranged from our sons, daughters and grandchildren.
Can all of us really be that bad?

Smileless2012 I think such toys should be bought (preferably from a charity shop) when the GC is not present. Let them be, from day 1, toys "kept at granny's house". Not buy them under his nose, let him play with them for a day, and then send him home without them. Children always so excited about new toys bought for them on shopping excursions.

BTW, there are Gransnet articles in conjunction with Relate here:
www.gransnet.com/online-surveys-product-tests/estrangement-survey
and here:
www.gransnet.com/forums/relationships/1262326-Relationship-Q-A-with-Relate
One is following the recent survey and the other a QandA one.
Might be helpful.

In my experience, mostly estrangements are due to an ongoing toxic pattern of behaviour that cannot be changed.
It rarely comes out of the blue and it is often triggered by a very minor event that makes estrangement seem like a consequence out of proportion or an over reaction.

Please remember if your adult children tried to address with you something that bothered them, even if it did not make sense to you or you thought it was such a minor spat or misinderstanding.

Do you mean things one way but they are seen as something else by the other party? (You care and love your grandchild too much, spoil them, offer unsolicited advice, visit without letting them know first, wanting to spend more time with your grandkids than the one their parents are willing to offer, demand to spend Xmas with them on the same day, tell your grandchild: "don't tell mom and dad, this is a secret between us", forcing physical affection when a child does notwant to kiss you or hug you, ignore parent's rules as "over the top" because you want to spoil your grandkids, threatening or going for visitation because you do not see your grandkids as much as you want, getting offended if you do not meet your grandchild soon after he/she is born and having to wait for an invite, disregard safety rules, etc)

It is hard to pinpoint where the problem comes from without more specifics

No, you are not bad people, you may have incompatible personalities

I noticed that you said she had been ‘ rude and disrespectful’ since her teenage years. How did you deal with that? I think a good talk to ‘ clear the air’, perhaps leading to counselling would be a good idea.

( And, incidentally, I agree with Gonegirl, maybe buying things to amuse him would be better done when he’s not there. I know it means you don’t get to see his pleasure when you buy them, but maybe make it easier to keep the peace, if it’s a big deal with his mum.)

It's a complicated situation, isn't it?

You seem angry with your daughter and she in turn has a control problem and uses her son as her weapon.

None of us really know the ins and outs of your personalities or why you clash, but the situation is obviously causing you much pain Jemz

I know my thoughts might be a bit simplistic, bit in your shoes, know what I would do?

I'd back off and put your relationship on a one to one footing. You must negotiate with your daughter.

Go and buy a nice card and write to her. Say you are sorry you have such a mixed up relationship with her, and you wish it were easier.

Also say you miss HER and xxx (your grandson) Tell her you hope things can be mended. Suggest to your daughter that you both start again and tell her you are there for HER should she need you during her pregnancy or at any time. Make no more arrangements.

You have to unscramble what you have I think before your relationship is completely broken.

Tell her you are thinking of them both, apologise for your relationship becoming fractured and send them your love.

Then give it a little while.

I think this approach would work with my daughters (although we haven't fallen out..) You don't want to drag in any more go-betweens. I appreciate you haven't got the easiest of relationships with your daughter but you must mend that if you want to make any headway I think.

Wishing you lots of luck. I can imagine how you are hurting and missing your grandson.

I’m sorry for your situation and you come across as kind and caring.
However you have involved so many people and dwelt on such minutiae that I fear you’re escalating the situation. I can understand it causing problems. Just reading the posts is exhausting.
Try and relax, save your energy for your new job and partner and back off for a while.
I can imagine your daughter feels undermined by your behaviour.
What you see as concern (the bedsheets) she may see as criticism or control.
Also the amount of money you seem to be spending on Lego etc could be misinterpreted as you trying to buy your grandson’s affections.
The toys we have for our granddaughter when she visits mainly come from charity shops, as she gets older I return them and replace them with more age appropriate toys.
Good luck.

Thank you Joyfulnanna I am very excited, I’ve missed him so much. I keep thinking he’s probably grown & developed his vocabulary. He couldn’t pronounce his L’s which was cute but hopefully he’s able to now.

What is lovely about this thread is that the OP has taken the trouble to read and reply individually to each post. Thanks Jem xx

NotSpaghetti I couldn’t see that because my daughter knows me very well. If she was able to communicate I could have dealt with her feelings & calmed the situation like I have baby times before.

Instead, once again, something was blown completely out of proportion. Believe it or not I have feelings too. Have you not read, I have had enough because I have tried for years. This isn’t something that has happened over night, or the second I poured my heart out to strangers, this has been going on for many years. I have considered her feelings but I am trying to consider my own now too.

I think it’s more disappointment & pain that I have expressed. Unfortunately its responding to self righteousness people’s comments that are making me angry.

Thank you so much Dolcelatte this is the kind of structured response I need. I’d love to read some of the books you have read. I think I should do some research & receive factual information to try & understand more.

You’re right my daughter would probably love to be given the same attention as my grandson but I had to let her be more responsible & mature as a mother. Some may call it selfish but honestly I would love to have a mature relationship with her as that’s what I expect now. Finding the balance has not been easy.

She knows she is still very important to me as every time she needs me I’m there, no matter how bad are relationship is at the time. The problem I have is when I can’t help or the times I have tried to explain that it’s impossible for me to fix her problem I get attacked, which yes has even been physical.

Unfortunately previous experience has made believe that backing off completely is all I can do now.

Thank you whywhywhy as I wrote in my initial post I found comfort reading other mothers/grandmothers experiences or that they were going through something similar to me because I feel like where ever I go or look Mother’s have loving & happy relationship’s with their daughters.

I have actually written 4 letters to my daughter over the years. The last one I took to the counselling session as I thought it could be read together in a safe & structured environment but she freaked out because I had sent it to her before hand & she knew if it was read out it would paint a completely different picture than what she was trying to portray.

Some say I’m her mum she needs me now she’s pregnant but I’m sorry I know she can be extremely volatile at the best of times so I think it’s best I keep my distance at this time.

As I’ve stressed, since yesterday, there were reasons I didn’t send the Lego home, sorry but I’m actually sick of reading about Lego now.

March I really shouldn’t be wasting my time on these kind of messages anymore.

Obviously it’s a poor mother daughter relationship that’s why I asked them to send a message asking if I could see him & gave a time & day that he’d be collected by me. It was not threatening or bullying. It only needed a yes that’s fine, instead to make it difficult for me she insisted I call myself. Fact I only asked my mum as she used the excuse that she doesn’t know my partner well enough, which is a lie. I thought the fact that she knew my mum very well she would be reasonable & say ok that’s fine. Fact, my sister, her aunt never messaged.

I know I haven’t hurt my daughter intensionally. I shared the reasons she gave for her hurt during our counselling sessions. I accepted at the time that I had obvious hurt her in her eyes but it hasn’t changed anything. Therefore your comment is not justified? You don’t know me, or the sacrifices I’ve made therefore you can’t know what I’ve been through & write as if you do.

Fact, I’m backing off, that’s the obvious problem. Hence why she’s insisting I call her to ask to see my grandson myself. Is that the actions of someone who’s backing off. It is not a rhetorical question so no need to reply.

Thank you Alexa, I believe you have a valid point, one I have considered & even mentioned in a earlier response. I did not intend to parent her own child. It seems I can not win in here. I offered support when I thought it was needed & had fun with my grandson who is lovely & deserves it. I used to suggest that my daughter came with us when we went to the park but I noticed it wasn’t the same experience for him & she didn’t always enjoy it either. So I now take him on my own.

Yes I believe she displays low self esteem but refuses to accept that she does.

Thank you so much Elvive I truly appreciate the support you have given me. I thought this was a forum titled estrangement where I would have meaningful discussions with likeminded people or people who just want to give their support not just their opinion. You know how low I was, it is a good thing I wasn’t suicidal, some of these women could have sent me over the edge.

Although I was depressed I have spent the last two days defending myself to opinionated strangers. Yes I openly shared my situation & feelings on a forum but that was because i was in such a dark place. I don’t see how those women felt their opinion was so important to over shadow my hurt.

It’s endless. I have repeated myself enough. I just want things to be better & to see my grandson. It’s a shame people couldn’t see that that was obviously much more important than Lego.

Luckily I’m seeing him in a couple of weeks time which has brightened my mood not to mention I had to return to work today & smile. I will definitely see the counsellor again & will do some research. Like I said I need to prevent myself going to the dark place again.

xx