Do you send gifts to GC when estranged

You’re not listening violetsky.

Why do you assume that only children who have abusive parents would want to find and get to know their GP's?

Leaving a memory box for GC is so they hopefully, by the time they get it are old enough not to be influenced by their parents so able to decide for themselves.

No Bibbity, I've already given the definition of indoctrination. It depends on whether for example faith is being taught or the person is being indoctrinated; unable to question/critically analyse.

But is it being taught as fact?
God is not a fact it is a belief. So is the priest going up and saying I believe XYZ or is he saying God said? God commands? Jesus said?

Also

"To teach with a biased, one-sided or uncritical ideology. The definition of indoctrinate is to teach a particular viewpoint. An example of indoctrinate is to teach your children your religious beliefs."

To the believer yes, it's a fact. I cannot prove that God exists and that Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected 3 days later and you can't prove that God doesn't exist and that Jesus wasn't resurrected.

You're wrongly assuming that all parents who have their child Christened will teach their child about Christianity without allowing them to question what they're being taught.

Violet Sky, you state in one of your earlier posts" that your children trust and love you ", do you not realise that many posters thought the same thing, i would have challenged anyone who told me different, but life changes for whatever reasons...do you think we don't ask questions as to why relationships have changed...if we don't get any communication what do we do ?
We are doing the best we can, like you with your mother.

I'm not wrongly assuming anything. The act of baptism and christening is wrong imo as it is entering the child into a religion they did not consent to.

Bridie22

Violet Sky, you state in one of your earlier posts" that your children trust and love you ", do you not realise that many posters thought the same thing, i would have challenged anyone who told me different, but life changes for whatever reasons...do you think we don't ask questions as to why relationships have changed...if we don't get any communication what do we do ?
We are doing the best we can, like you with your mother.

I have AC now so that's the scenario now, I'm not under any illusions that things cannot change. I went through a period of serious illness recently and wasn't myself at all as an example.

Smileless2012

Why do you assume that only children who have abusive parents would want to find and get to know their GP's?

Leaving a memory box for GC is so they hopefully, by the time they get it are old enough not to be influenced by their parents so able to decide for themselves.

I'm not assuming, it's one possible scenario.

Again though if the grandchildren decide for themselves they would quite like to have a relationship with grandparents, they can't if it was left in the will...

I suppose if you are Christian maybe you are taking heaven into account but I'm not because I am not Christian and think we have to live and love while we are alive.

The problem is that on here when GC decide not to have anything to do with the GPs it's not because they are their own people. It's because they've been poisoned ?

Well let's just hope that you're never on the other side of estrangement sometimes it's not your AC that is tbe catalyst.

Yes Bibbity in your opinion. Children are taught maths but that doesn't mean they'll be indoctrinated into being mathematicians. They're taught science but that doesn't mean they'll be indoctrinated into being scientists.

Leaving a memory box for your GC in your will is to let them know you loved and thought about them while you were alive, because you never got the chance to know them, and if that happens, you never had the chance to show that love.

If your GC contact you during your life time, you'd give them the memory box at that time.

The problem on here Bibbity is that some refuse to accept that and AC can be poisoned against their own parents and that they in turn can poison their children against their GP's.

Granniesunite

Well let's just hope that you're never on the other side of estrangement sometimes it's not your AC that is tbe catalyst.

Yes, I agree we should all hope that because I wouldn't wish estrangement on anyone.

Weirdly, not even my own mother but that's a complicated set of feelings to explain and I did give her every chance I possibly could to avoid it.

Maths ?? Maths!!!
OMG I haven't read past maths is indoctrination. You've just proved you have no clue about it.

Actually Bibbity it's you who doesn't understand what's being discussed so to save you from embarrassing yourself further, I'll stop going around in ever decreasing circles with you.

I'm not embarrassed at all trust me. I'm holding back actual laughter.

The funny thing about those boxes is they only show the narrative you want. The same thing you accuse the AC doing...

They won't for example show the grown grandchildren if a person was racist, homophobic...a bigot?

Bet none of that would get entered.

Different people make different decisions about what to do in any estrangement. They do what they feel they need to do at any particular point in an estrangement, whether they are estranging or being estranged.

There seem to be some astounding assumptions being made on this thread about motivations; place an action comes from; purpose of actions/decisions taken; impact on grandchildren (as adults); behaviours of parents; behaviour of grandparents; behaviours of EAC and so much more.

Most of it seems to be complete conjecture, whilst trampling on people trying to find a way through a sad situation. . Many have tried to deal with the problem directly whilst alive, and have got nowhere, for various reasons. So understandably they try to find a different way to leave a message about their love after they have died. The consequences of that decision will vary, and is something that those left behind will deal with. They can't be protected from all the consequences of estrangement.

None of us know how our adult children will respond in different situations. Those who have estranged, each for different reasons, may well think/assume that their children will "support them" /ignore it if left a legacy. There is no guarantee of that, just as there is no way of knowing how adult grandchildren will react.

The messages they take from any legacy is for them to take, depending on how they have grown up, what they have been told, how their parents respond, their understanding of the background to the estrangement, how much they can think for themselves.

What if , on receiving a legacy/box, they feel that they were loved after all by grandparents who they knew when small, and loved, who cared for them, and then who suddenly disappeared? That could certainly be a possible scenario for some of the estranged GPs on here.
That would be the opposite of the negative messages suggested. Both are possible in different scenarios and that should be recognised, not the negative assumed

Ofcourse an ideal is to reach out whilst alive etc. But in reality ...that is so often not an option!

Thank you *madgran 77. Your post says it all.

Good post Madgran.

Excellent post Madgran. And, above all, kind and compassionate.

kind and compassionate

Very important, even when giving hard messages or being a critical friend giving constructive criticism!

I think I've said in another thread, maybe this one, can't remember, that I wondered if my MIL might try to contact my children when they reached 18. She hasn't.

My situation is a bit different as MIL cut us off. My eldest has said that if her GM ever makes contact, she will not have anything to do with it. My younger ones don't know their GM but they do listen to their eldest siblings and have taken on it on board. At this stage, I can't see them being interested either.

I know enough that if MIL does try to leave behind something that suggests she has always wanted to be in their lives and how much she loves them, my eldest is going to respond in anger. They can see the actions contradict the words. They remember me helping them call their GM (at their request) and asking GM to come visit. GM told GC that her parents didn't want that which confused GC because she had just been told, when she asked her parents, that she could ask GM to visit. GC saw GM inventing a narrative that was just demonstrated to be untrue. She can't undo that damage by leaving a box saying how much she cared for her.

My own GM who I never knew (due to distance) left me a scrapbook of all the drawings I made and were posted to her as a child. I guess it shows she valued them. I have a few things from my other GM (who I never knew either) but I do really value them. It makes me a bit sad that I never knew her thoug.

Nicely put Madgran. ?

As an ‘outsider’ with no vested interest in this topic, no-one is coming across particularly well here.

It's understandable that your children wouldn't to have contact with or receive anything from their GM CafeAuLait.

What you posted about your own GM is lovely. To know that she loved you even though you never knew her is what we hope our GC will know one day too.