SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Iam64 email GN they should reply and give you a reason. I saw that and suspect the same person who got me deleted did it to you . Best to ignore anything she posts in future. Let her have her rants if she is ignored she might get the message .

I’m sure you’re right Whiff about the reporting individual. It’s my only deleted post on this site. Genuinely I don’t believe I broke guidance.

I missed that whiff. I find your posts and Iam64 very perceptive and understanding perhaps that’s the very reason they have to go.? Too near the bone as my mum used to say. As I’ve said before I don’t agree that posts are deleted let us make up our own minds about them and the posters.

”what makes you a warrior queen” At the moment it’s just having the energy to face life head on and get through a day
smileless ?

As a family though we have decided to move on with our lives we will continue to love and keep the doors wide open for our family member but get back to living life the way we used to.
As one family member said you can’t make sense of some of the nonsense being flung around so why try so let’s take ourselves away from the rubbish and see what happens..

Good to see you back where you belong Smileless! Ladies, please don't let "the deleter" get you down; see it for what it is; envy and resentment of the tight knit, supportive group of friends that you've all become and that they are not a part of. You're stronger than you know.

That's a lovey post Chewbacca, thank you x

Sending you all hugs and ?. Agree don't let this setback spoil what is a lovely and supportive thread.

Whiff........your word "goading". It just sums up what Madam was doing on Christmas Day.....her behaviour was provocative. I don't know whether it's deliberate or whether she does it unconsciously, but the result is the same.

I wont bore you all and myself with brooding over the stunts she tried to pull in Christmas Day. I'm learning not to take the bait and I just blithely ignored her antics.

I have just been chatting on the phone to a friend who has endured pretty much the same tactics from her son and DIL this Christmas. We've been comparing notes and our stories are so similar it's uncanny. Anyway both my friend and I have come to the conclusion that at least we now know where we stand and we know how to handle these situations going forward.

Granniesunite......I think you and your family are doing the best thing, keep the door open but get on with living your life. That's my plan now.

I am pretty certain that whilst I did manage to avoid total estrangement my situation is still precarious. Madam isn't done with me yet. My relationship with my son is delicate and fragile and I have to proceed with caution,

However, I am not going to debase myself and beg. If as I suspect she will to try engineer friction and stir up trouble I shall simply refuse to engage or respond. If that is not enough estrangement becomes unavoidable then so be it.

Whatever the outcome next year I shall be making significant changes and shall be concentrating on my own life. I will play the game but in my own terms, putting myself and my other son first.

A new year, a new beginning,

Here's to us ladies......?. Warrior Queens, each and everyone of us. ?.

The worse thing about being goaded is when you let your guard down and take the bait. You must have been mentally exhausted DSL bobbing and weaving those 'bullets' for an entire day.

Great for you and your friend that you can talk about this, compare notes and give provide one another with the tactics that you've successfully employed.

I think you're right about your situation being precarious but hopefully when she realises that she's not going to win, she'll back off.

No point in carrying on with the game when every time you play, you lose. So much easier when you can simply ignore it and refuse to engage, but not possible when the game player's married to your son.

You should know why a post has offended someone. Smileless’s last paragraph sums up the situation, every fire needs air to do damage.

Smiles ......you are so right. If Madam were not married to my son I wouldn't give her the time of day. I wouldn't waste my time and energy on her. I would just walk away.

I'm finding that when we employ the DEEP method the narc hates the fact that they can't get the reaction they want so they up the ante, "doubling down" on their efforts to rattle us. I was warned this would happen and thats exactly what Madam is doing. But I think you're right, there will come a point where she will get tired of it and lose interest......she will lose patience before I do. I can play a long game and bide my time. She won't be able to because she is impatient and impulsive, she wants instant gratification.

It's become a battle of wits and currently I am winning...?. One I never wanted but I will see it out.

It's so much easier when you know what you are dealing with. You can predict their next move with a fair degree of accuracy. Initially I was blindsided but I have learned so much, both from this thread and from various books and websites. She's a text book narc.

I have taken what I've learned and am using that knowledge to help me play her games and turn the tables back on to her. It is paying off. I can see she is often bamboozled when I dont react the way she wants me too. She doesn't know how to respond. She veers from hoovering and love bombing to being provocative and trying to engineer a row. Either way I just don't bite. I hold my tongue, smile sweetly and change the subject, usually launching into an amusing anecdote or cracking a joke. She hates that, she smiles but it's not genuine. You can tell by the daggers in her eyes she's furious.

I know I sound horribly cruel and I really don't want to engage with her mind games. I would much prefer an honest, easy relaxed relationship but that's never going to happen. She's hell bent on a collision course. So, unfortunately, if I want to see my son and grandchildren, I'm forced to play this nasty game of cat and mouse.

At the risk of sounding like a monster, I play to win. Not by aggression but by side stepping the booby traps and by being quietly assertive.

It's a high stakes game but I'm prepared to see it through. Im prepared to risk estrangement because what's at stake here is my sons mental health and well-being, I will not stand by and watch her destroy him, at least not without putting up a fight. If I lose, I lose but at least I will have tried. I can't say fairer than that.

One day my son will open his eyes.

Actually, It's already looking more hopeful. There have been a few glimmers, a few signs that he is slowly coming out of his torpor. There was an incident on Christmas Day when he did actually stand up to her and get his way. He certainly seems to be more aware these days and a little less cowed. I've noticed he is starting to speak up and assert himself a bit more often. He looks better too, less haggard and strained. I am not going to get too excited though, there's a long way to go.

I'm going to carry on doing what I'm doing and just let things run their course. She's never going to change, her behaviour will only get worse. My game plan is to stand well clear and give her plenty of rope.......she will metaphorically hang herself in due course. In her bid for total control she will go too far. It might take years but one day my son will call time on their marriage. He's been blindsided but he seems to be finally waking up. The poor devil might be forced to play along until the children are grown up but I'm now pretty certain that he will eventually break free.

Unfortunately I may not be around to see that day.

One more day and then it's goodbye and good riddance to 2021. A truly horrible year for me when I finally realised that my DIL truly hates me and holds me in utter contempt. I don't hate her, I don't hate anyone. I feel nothing but pity for her. She's a lost soul beyond help or redemption. I feel truly sorry for her but I wont let my pity stop me from standing up for myself (and my son).

If there's one thing you count on with a narcissist, if you're unfortunate enough to not be able to walk away, is their predictability DSL.

The wealth of information available is priceless and it soon becomes clear that they are all the same, all 'text book' cases. I sometimes wonder if they have any idea, that we can learn all we need to know about how to deal with them for as long as they're in our lives.

You are still very much in the game, and as long as you are you will be a positive influence on your son and a thorn in her side. From what you've said, I agree that there are signs that your son is just beginning to see things as they are, and not as she wants him to see them.

Smiling sweetly, changing the subject, making a joke will be driving her crazy and all the while your son will be seeing the mum he knows and loves, and not the one she's trying to portray you as, and make him see.

You don't sound horribly cruel, she's the one who is horribly cruel as they all are, hoping to tear your family apart if she gets the chance.

Our ES's wife hates us and holds us in utter contempt I don't hate her but I don't pity her either. I sometimes think I should, that I should feel sorry for and those like her but I don't.

I've seen what they can do, how cruel and destructive they can be. How they'll identify their victim, seek to isolate them from the rest of their family or if it's a non family member, from the rest of their group, and then do whatever it takes yo bring them down.

I was thinking about a lioness as I was typing that, but they hunt to feed their cubs and themselves, they hunt for survival. Narcissists do what they can, because they can.

oops that should have been Narcissists do what they do because they can.

I agree I see myself as the lioness, trying to protect her cub, even if he is or should be a fully grown lion and able to fight his own battles.

Perhaps you are right, maybe my pity is wasted.

I know I ended up pitying my dad, because towards the end of his life he was a pitiful creature, when he had lost his looks, and his power. He ended up a sad lonely friendless widower, full of remorse for the way he had treated my mum.

I think that, unless she changes her ways, she too will end up sad, lonely and bitter. Right now she thinks she has it all, looks, money, glittering career ahead of her, handsome husband, beautiful healthy children but, if her trajectory is anythjng like my fathers, she will lose the lot and it will all be her fault,

Part of my dads bitterness was the final realisation that he too had everything and that he'd thrown it all away.

Oops posted too,soon.

That's why I pity her......I dont see her enjoying a happy life. She will drive everyone away, probably even her own children,

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I wonder who set this up? We’ll never know as this poster is never going to post again. Pity .

No idea Granniesunite but I am reporting both posts. Does seem rather strange after Chewbacca's lovely post earlier today.

I've reported them both and I hope no one will be upset by these. As Chewbacca posted earlier today see them for what they are "envy and resentment of the tight knit supportive group of friends that you've all become".

I though at first it was a school holiday?

Yes she hit the nail on the head I think with that post.

I suspect it's more than that Granniesuite but they're not worth our time or attention.

I've reported these two posters as well.

I couldn't believe what I was reading. Words fail me.

Best to ignore and report them Whiff.

Interesting development.

So according to our two guest posters it transpires that this thread has reached a wider audience beyond the confines of Gransnet.

Well that's good to hear because it's about time the wider world became more aware of the plight of estranged grandparents.

For too long EGPs have remained silent, possibly due to feelings of shame and embarrassment. Thankfully no more, because at last EGPs are finding their voice.

This thread and many similar threads both on Gransnet and various other websites are finally giving EGPs a platform where their voice can be heard, where they can be supported and where they can find information.

To our guests I say by all means let this thread do the rounds, may it and others like it get the message out there so that the subject of estrangement finally gets a spotlight shone upon it.

Smileless........you were so brave going on TV and telling your story and you have been such an inspiration starting this thread and keeping up the momentum.

You are doing a sterling job.

I have reported the posts also, but it did worry me just how public our inner feelings are being broadcast, our support thread here felt quite protective and helpful and these nasty posts may stop people posting feelings freely...
Wishing you all..allmyou wish for yourselves this coming year, hope its a good one , safe and healthy ?