Son has signed out

Omaju

ByeHere

Maremia

We don't really need to know both sides though, do we? It's not a court case. TopNan is looking for help.

Ok, lets all give it to her!

TopNan - Your son is a big stinky doodoo head and is awful for tearing apart your family. His perspective is completely and wholly unjustified because as your username suggests, you are the TOP NAN so any problem he has can't possibly be your fault!

xoxo

Wow! Who bit your nose this morning?
If you can't be supportive or offer any help without being mean then, please, don't say anything at all. Constructive criticism is just that, constructive but not mean or nasty.

My first post on this thread is constructive, even if it's not to your taste. Here is a refersher...

Maybe that single accusation (that you both can at least agree happened) is very important, and your abysmal attitude regarding it probably leaves a lot to be desired from a parental figure who is supposed to be mature and definitely wiser.

If you have such a dysfunctional view on the relationship with your child [oceans and puddles], it leaves to wonder what else you get wrong. Probably a whole myriad of things. Very important things.

And without having the specific details there is not much more constructive criticism to be offered.

But the attitude displayed by the OP clearly shows a lot of room for improvement as an adult, especially a mother.

You haven't offered any constructive criticism ByeHere and it is your attitude that clearly shows a lot of improvement is needed.

TopNan1 Anyway he's not exactly estranged but doesn't initiate any contact and if I phone him he doesn't answer and doesn't ring back.

He's not estranged, accept and be a happy mum.

Perhaps he's busy? I'd wait quietly, sending occasional notes.

I dislike phone calls that must last longer than a minute, as do our children. I much prefer email. Perhaps avoid calling?

No he isn’t estranged and though it might seem like a very long time for a son not to contact his mum it really could feel quite short to the son who as a young man must have a busy life. The initial issues that led to this blanking of the mum should not imho be brought up or blown out of proportion whilst he is still ‘blanking’. Is a question of being patient and keeping channels of communication open so when he does resume contact then you can both talk honestly and openly about what occurred.
But nothing can happen until he decides to resume contact, forcing it or enlisting his siblings could only result in driving him further away.

Babs03

No he isn’t estranged and though it might seem like a very long time for a son not to contact his mum it really could feel quite short to the son who as a young man must have a busy life. The initial issues that led to this blanking of the mum should not imho be brought up or blown out of proportion whilst he is still ‘blanking’. Is a question of being patient and keeping channels of communication open so when he does resume contact then you can both talk honestly and openly about what occurred.
But nothing can happen until he decides to resume contact, forcing it or enlisting his siblings could only result in driving him further away.

I promise you (TopNan), if you resumed contact by seeing his justifications as valid (since they are valid to him) and offered a sincere apology instead of an empty one (as well as empty 'I love you's), than your relationship will begin to truly heal.

But you likely don't have the required level of emotional maturity to radically accept the shame that will come with validating his justifications/reasons, so you need to work on that aspect of yourself first. Either through some deep soul searching or effective counseling to find the source of your immaturity (as you did become defensive when faced with undeniable criticism).

Likely stems from your own upbringing and imperfect parents.

Smileless2012

You haven't offered any constructive criticism ByeHere and it is your attitude that clearly shows a lot of improvement is needed.

Almost everytime you reply I feel like I'm back in the playground again.

Na-uhn I know what you are but what am I?

@ByeHere

“ But you likely don't have the required level of emotional maturity to radically accept the shame that will come with validating his justifications/reasons, so you need to work on that aspect of yourself first. Either through some deep soul searching or effective counseling to find the source of your immaturity (as you did become defensive when faced with undeniable criticism).

Likely stems from your own upbringing and imperfect parents.”

You are talking as if you have known this person for years and hold her in contempt for reasons of your own.
You know nothing at all. And what’s more the OP doesn’t owe you or anyone else justification or explanations. Indeed unless she is in a court of law facing charges nobody has the right to judge.
For goodness sake get off your high horse and stop making up your own narrative.

She sees the other persons viewpoint as invalid, and if they weren't related by blood they would likely have no relationship at all.

She also reacted defensively when faced when faced with undeniable criticism which suggests she's immature. Furthermore, she foolishly believes her justifications (she was stressed/depressed) excuse her behavior.

TopNan1

My son has blanked me since January and when he eventually did decide to talk to me ( "it was very hard for him") he hit me with a broadside of complaints and reasons why he'd stopped talking to me. Most were totally unjustified and I say that because I am my harshest critic, I don't have a high opinion of myself. I can only own one of his accusations but my attitude at that time was defensive because I was going through a lot of stress and grief.
Anyway he's not exactly estranged but doesn't initiate any contact and if I phone him he doesn't answer and doesn't ring back. I feel like it's the oceans and puddles thing now - why should I jump over an ocean for him when he's not prepared to jump over a puddle for me. His brother and sister naturally don't take sides but they are aching for me because they know how heartbroken I am and how a lot of what he said was unjustified. They are trying to maintain the status quo but sadly I think my son has completely blown our family apart. I'm not sure I even like him anymore!! Just my story and some days I get so depressed about it. We were once very close and I think that's no longer the case.

Hi, I tried reading through to see if anyone had already asked my thoughts but it was all a bit of a disaster. I have a few thoughts and I hope you don't mind me sharing them with you.

Other than this issue with your son, how are his other relationships? Does he tend to fall out with a lot of people or is this just you? What could the possible reasons for that be? Do these feelings seem real and genuine to him?

Would it be a better idea to leave his brother and sister out of this situation? They don't want to take sides and you need to focus on mending your relationship without risking damaging theirs or it will end up being harder all around.

I will be completely honest and say to you that "I don't think I even like him anymore" is absolutely devastating to read. I have raised children myself and now they are raising their own they don't always agree with how I did things. I've had to accept that and they have had to accept I did the best I knew how in many situations. They know had I had the information they are able to access I would not do things the same way and I support their parenting.

Understanding that a child's view of their upbringing is not the same as your own is devastating but it is also an opportunity for both of you to bring the relationship closer than ever. The number of times my children have recounted a memory to me and I cannot remember a moment of it or remember it differently, I think it is easy at times to look back with rose tinted glasses or believe you would have done things a certain way but we all do change greatly over time.

Sometimes the way forward is to accept the feelings of the person you are talking to. That is not an admission of guilt. It is simply dealing with those situations and feelings one thing at a time. Accepting he remembers situations one way and also sharing how you remember them with admitting to a simple truth, our memories are not always reliable, we do remember parts and fill in the gaps subconsciously and getting to a place where you both can acknowledge that would likely resolve the issue.

And without having the specific details there is not much more constructive criticism to be offered

I think it is perfectly possible to offer constructive advice without specific details and without making assumptions about either tge son or the OP. An example would be to really LISTEN if a conversation happens between the OP and her son.

Good advice InRainbows.

Harsh Byethere

Madgran77

*And without having the specific details there is not much more constructive criticism to be offered*

I think it is perfectly possible to offer constructive advice without specific details and without making assumptions about either tge son or the OP. An example would be to really LISTEN if a conversation happens between the OP and her son.

Good advice.

Listening rather than speaking with preconceived ideas set aside.

Also self refecting may be a good idea.

Perhaps not being upset over small amount of time involved, look forward.

Give grace, be kind, it's free.

ByeHere

She sees the other persons viewpoint as invalid, and if they weren't related by blood they would likely have no relationship at all.

She also reacted defensively when faced when faced with undeniable criticism which suggests she's immature. Furthermore, she foolishly believes her justifications (she was stressed/depressed) excuse her behavior.

And it is perfectly possible to point out that she might benefit from considering these possibilities truthfully with herself whilst considering her next steps in such a way that an upset and hurting person can "hear" the constructive comments rather than shuts down/is even more upset and emotional at a bombardment of negative accusatory criticism. Doing so creates a better chance of helping a poster who is asking for help. Sarcastic and unpleasantly weird comments and criticism will not help atall.

But ofcourse it depends on the motivation of posters who decide to respond to the OPs request for help.

Having been party to a similar situation, I'd say it's vital to keep the communication lines open by acknowledging things like birthdays etc with just a card/text and not to go completely silent as that does more harm than good. Also agree that siblings should be kept out of this as being seen to have loyalties one side or the other can hinder any reconciliation. I hope it's resolved soon as this kind of thing is heartbreaking.

I have genuinely cringed with discomfort at the nasty comments made by the certain few that are able to hide behind the luxury of the anonymity this forum provides. Just focus on the good and sensible advice (as always) given to you on here topnan1.

Nothing is quite as painful as estrangement from a child - I am so sorry that you have to suffer this. It really is heartache. I hope that as time passes your son will think long and hard about what he has said, as you have obviously thought about your behaviour and feelings, and posted on GN. If you are available for phone calls or visits, and remain calm and gentle if/ when you do see him, this miserable situation may well change and resolve with time. I hope so - and please don't take notice of unpleasant posts. You have to wonder what is wrong with some people.

TopNan never blame yourself your son made his choice. My son made his I will always love him but the kind loving son I had for 32 years. He is now a stranger to me . He is now 38. I will never forgive or forget what he and my daughter in law put me through. He called me vindictive and manipulative and said zero contact. So his has his wish. The hardest thing for me was realising my son is a cruel coward as he cut ties with me via email and letter . But not just me but all our side of the family.

But I know he would never have the guts to say what he did in his email to my face plus I know my daughter in law had a hand in that as no spelling ,grammar or punctuation mistakes. The letter was pure him .

Took me 3 years to decide to give up any hope of seeing or hearing from him again. And have been happier since. He is a stranger to me but I am no longer the mom he knew I have no tolerance for bad behaviour.

My husband dieing hurts me more than what my son has done . If people ask me if I have children always say 2 and 5 grandson's. If they ask do I see them all I say no . If they ask why I tell them . I have nothing to be ashamed of my son made his choice I never saw it coming . But it has amazed me how many people in real life have told me they don't see a child or children and grandchildren.

You are not being petty never think that for a minute . And ignore anyone who says nasty things about you or to you . You will have some nasty comments from some posters but ignore them as they do the same to every estranged parent . In their eyes it's always the parents fault . But they have most likely have done it to their own parents . But won't admit it.

Join the support thread and be amongst a lovely group it's been going over 12 years . It was my lifeline but we talk about everything. Estrangement is just a small part of our lives but you can live with it . Estrangement is called a living grief. But it isn't live the grief I and many others feel everyday over the death of a spouse or partner . The grief parents feel over the death of children is the worst of all griefs . But I can't comment further on that as I only write about my own experiences.

You have other children so you are a wonderful mom . I have a daughter,son in law and 2 grandsons who I see regularly. Estranged children think they can destroy us they are wrong .

That must have been so painful for you TopNan, and believe me I know how it feels to be treated like this, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
You are a human being before you are a mum so you have every right to feel hurt and furious. Anybody in your position would feel likewise. Some may come on here and say you shouldn’t make this about you, that it should be about how your son is feeling, I imagine they have never been hurt like this, how can you not feel this way and not want your son to know that he is causing this?
We have a right to our feelings.
But for your own well-being you must stop sending messages of any kind and concentrate on your own life with your other ACs who must be worried about you.
Your son will not respond well to any contact right now and has made his feelings clear. Hurtful and heartbreaking as it is, nothing can change this right now.
Take a break and find calm in whichever way you can for life really is too short.
All the best.
Xx

Oh Top Nan, something has gone so wrong here hasn't it?

Terribly sorry to read this. Please take care of yourself.

Hello again TopNan. Feeling angry and hurt at the same time doesn't make you petty, it means you are human .

at least I stood up for myself instead of swallowing everything and pretending I'm fine good for you. It's not what everyone in your position would do but it's what we did almost 13 years ago when we lost our youngest son and only GC, and have never regretted it because it was the right thing for us.

Over the years here on GN and a couple of other online sites, I've seen that not all EP's take the same route and I've also seen that regardless it makes no difference to the outcome.

If your AC doesn't want you in their life then you're out and the only chance of reconciliation is if they change their mind. Those of us who are estranged experience a living bereavement as we work through our grief for the loss of our child who hasn't died. We grieve for the relationship we had or in our case, thought we had and we grieve for the loss of a life we thought we would have. The joy of being a parent to our adult child and grand parent to their children.

You now know where you stand, in a 'place' that anyone whose experienced it wouldn't wish on their worse enemy and you must do whatever it takes to get through it.

Cry, scream, shout and/or hit something if that helps. Don't regard your anger as a negative because it can be a positive. It can make us determined to not give up, to refuse to curl up into a ball of misery because in the beginning, that's all you want to do.

As Whiff has posted Estranged children think they can destroy us; they are wrong. You have children and GC who love you, so concentrate on them. See your son's blocking you from the family group and blocking your number as doing you a favour, because he has.

It takes away the temptation of seeing what he and the children are doing which will only make your estrangement all the more difficult to cope with. It takes away the temptation of calling him, just to be brutally dismissed again.

You are not alone, as Whiff's told you there's a support thread here on this forum which has literally been a life saver to me and many others.

x

wouldn't wish should have been 'would wish'.

TopNanl

Well I thought I’d update since so many of you were so wonderfully supportive. I did exactly what some of you suggested. I stopped chasing him, I stopped apologising for things I don’t think I did, and I started looking after myself. I even took the brave route of putting a small message up on his upcoming birthday so he’d know I still love him (I said “I still love you. Whenever you’re ready”). Honest to God I thought that would soften him.
What happened instead has been unbearable. He replied to my birthday message with a single line. “Do not contact me.” Then he deleted me from the family group and blocked my numbe!, and told our neighbours not to let me near the house for family things.
I tried one last conciliatory message since then, and I wrote to him that I was sad and that I deserved a little more kindness after everything I’ve done for him. Someone here said I shouldn't grovel, so I added that “cutting me off feels cruel given what I’ve sacrificed.” He answered by calling me “toxic” and not good enough as a parent. Me!! For saying I’m hurt. I don’t have a high opinion of myself, I always say that, but I am not this monster he paints me to be.
So now I’m heartbroken and angry. I’ve started telling people quietly that if he wants to make this mean he never sees me or the grandchildren again, that’s his choice but I’ll not be diminished. People here suggested telling him in a birthday card how much I love him and that cutting ties was unforgivable; I did just that, because I refuse to be the only one being kind. Maybe that was stupid. Maybe that pushed him further. Maybe he’ll never speak again. But at least I stood up for myself instead of swallowing everything and pretending I’m fine.
Some days I wish I could be the forgiving, sensible parent that everyone praises! Other days I think why should I be the one always to bend? If he wants to be cold, let him be cold. He’s the one who’s lost the family, not me. I’m still crying, but I’m not grovelling. I’m giving myself permission to be hurt and furious at the same time. If that makes me petty, then so be it.

This is a terrible shame for both of you. Your comments to him are open to so many interpretations. I don't know where you could possibly go from here for the relationship but I do hope you find a way to manage those feelings.

It's up to TopNan's son now InRainbows. She's told him she loves him; the 'ball's in his court'.

OP, I’m really sorry that you are now worse off than you were before, but not at all surprised. Your conciliatory message to your son told him that you were sad and you deserved better after everything you had done for him and everything you had sacrificed for him, and then you called him cruel, and now you’re surprised that didn’t work???
As long as you are so angry and unable to see how that might have been received, I think no contact is absolutely the right decision. If and when you reach the point where you lose the anger, can consider things from his point of view and make any contact more about him rather than yourself, that would be the time to try again.
Yes, you can ‘stand up for yourself’ refuse to ‘grovel’, and tell yourself “why should I” if you like, but I can guarantee that you’ll never get your son back if you do. Is that worth it?
I’m really sorry to be so harsh, but you have had plenty of sympathy and support so far from those still estranged, and sometimes an honest view from someone with a different perspective is more useful to you.
There is a longstanding support thread for those who are still estranged, and I make no judgement on those who are in that awful situation, but this is just my contribution based on my experience of having successfully ended my family’s estrangement.