I think this will happen more and more

No comparison is there MollyGo? Personally, if I knew that my behaviour had made me so reviled and disrespected by my peers, I'd be too ashamed to show my face in the competitive arena again and I'd retire out of sight. But then I don't have an ego to feed.

It's the bare-faced cheek of it, Molly and Chewbacca.

All the same, I think the tide is turning, and it is this sort of high-profile case that is doing it.

Wonderful picture. DD. I’ve just shared it with a whole group of friends - and the cheers are already arriving.
The publicity will do a lot more good than we can on here, especially when more and more people see it as the cheating it really is.

Kara Dansky speaks for me Doodledog ???

I’ve been at my daughters today. Never really discussed the trans issues with my 19 year old g’son before, but did today. As soon as I said what do you think about Lia, didn’t even have to say the second name, he said “that cheating b…… should be ashamed of himself, those lassies have been training for years and they lose out to that”. He’s at uni, but is on a work placement just now, the place he’s working is staffed by nearly all men, and everyone of the men think the same as my g’son. Ages range from early 20s to near retirement age.

Also, and I only found this out today, LT has an older brother who also swam competitively at Penn Uni, and was a champion. I’ve read a fair few articles about LT, never seen this mentioned. So is it a case of trying to live up to big brother’s success, realising he was never going to do so ranked as far down the lists as he was, and now look, he’s a champion.

That's interesting to hear the views from a teenager's viewpoint grannydarkhair and very encouraging too. It's cheering to know that the constant refrains from the trans activists and their allies, that it's just "the older generation who can't accept change" and "need to move on towards a bright new, all accepting world" really is talking the load of cobblers I'd long suspected they had.

Yes Chewbacca, I admit I was delighted.
Especially given that the uni he’s at has been “captured” and a young woman called Lisa Keogh is taking them to court for how she was treated after making comments about basic human biology, eg. only men have penises, women have vaginas in one of her classes. Classmates complained, said she was homophobic, talking “literal violence”, all the usual stuff. College dealt very badly with it, and it basically ruined her final year.
She feels so strongly about the whole gamut of issues that she’s standing in the forthcoming May local elections.

Great picture Doodledog Getting this sort of quote out there says it so succinctly. That along with the whole Lia Thomas story is peaking many to what's actually going on. No debate is dead in the water.
That's interesting about his older brother grannydarkhair, could explain a lot. If that's the motivation I wonder if once Lia has finished swimming they'll discover they are a man after all. It was maybe a brief period of confusion. ?
Good luck to Lisa Keogh, hope she wins.

DH has found out Wes Thomas, Lia's older brother, was indeed a swimmer for Penn and did very well. Nothing much known what he's doing now, probably keeping his head down, although they are very similar in looks.

Yep big brother was part of something big.
www.thedp.com/article/2016/11/penn-mens-womens-swimming-diving-princeton-cornell-recap

If LT detransitions after leaving uni, then I think people would be justified in treating him with contempt for his obvious cheating. However, I’ve read he was on a drug regime of some sort before “swapping teams”, so I would imagine he is genuine in his feelings of being a transwoman. If not, then imagine being willing to go that far just to win a bloody race.

He's only on testosterone suppression. No penile inversion or breast implants (not that I'm suggesting for one moment Lia should have either) so having achieved a full male puberty, if testosterone suppression is ceased then Lia's body would quickly make normal levels of T once again.

You mean he was taking drugs?

He’s a cheat in my opinion and he’s a he!
Good picture Doodledog.

"A large group of swimming parents from five Ivy League Schools wrote a letter to the NCAA [National Collegiate Athletic Association], published in the New York Post, protesting the eligibility of transgender swimmer Lia Thomas."

www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/ivy-league-parents-write-new-letter-of-protest-to-ncaas-policy-on-transgender-athletes-treatment-of-women/

Excellent FarNorth it's gaining traction isn't it.

And Reka Gyorgy, who missed out on qualifying for the finals because of Thomas pushing everyone down by one place.

swimswam.com/17th-place-finisher-in-500-reka-gyorgy-pens-letter-to-ncaa-on-transgender-rules/

twitter.com/i/status/1505715407684091921

"When we weren't allowed to be in sports in college and get scholarships, everybody knew what a woman was. We weren't even allowed to participate in the marathon till the Olympics in 1984. When we weren't allowed to do that, they knew who a woman was."
@coachblade
#EverybodyKnows

Do you think it likely that the men's boxing categories scrapped? (There arec urrently 17 weight classes, from minimum weight, up up 105 pounds or 48 kg, going up to heavyweight at no maximum)

Surely it is just as unfair to exclude boxers from competing in classes against lighter people with naturally less muscular mass as it is to unfair object to those who have had natural testosterone while they were developing their male physique before transitioning, then competing against women who have had no such advantage.

That should have had an irony warning, also several typo corrections. It was typed with one hand while holding a cup of coffee in the other.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1505729132151259141.html

An interesting read and analysis of the impact Lia Thomas had on the championship.

First striking fact to emerge is that Thomas scored all Penn's NCAA points, yes all of them.
Second striking fact Penn was 20th out of 39 scoring schools, all down to Thomas against a field of 182 women.

But hey, no advantage there, nothing to see, be kind, inclusive.

Rosie51

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1505729132151259141.html

An interesting read and analysis of the impact Lia Thomas had on the championship.

First striking fact to emerge is that Thomas scored all Penn's NCAA points, yes all of them.
Second striking fact Penn was 20th out of 39 scoring schools, all down to Thomas against a field of 182 women.

But hey, no advantage there, nothing to see, be kind, inclusive.

Thanks for that Rosie51,
and still the authorities are too scared to say it’s wrong!

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-633735-screenshot-20220324-065245.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-675806-screenshot-20220324-064836.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202203/medium-539166-screenshot-20220324-064720.png

Sharron Davies is saying :

Sorry if this has been mentioned..I did skim through previous posts..

Caster Semenye who was raised female & identfies as female has been challenged & stopped from competing because she has naturally high testosterone. She is being asked too take drugs to lower her testosterone levels.
We have no idea if past female elite athletes had high testosterone, we do know that some elite female gymnasts have puberty supressed etc etc.
The more we know the more complex situations become..I don't have an answer but I know I felt Caster, as a woman, had been badly treated by press etc.

It does come up often, PECS. Her case is really tricky, and because she is black, anyone who suggests that there should be a cut-off for testosterone levels in female athletes is accused of racism as well as transphobia- it’s impossible to discuss dispassionately.

I think that whereas CS’s case is really difficult, the bottom line has to be that everything about competitive sport comes down to physical differences- people with long legs will be better at running, those with upper body strength will excel at throwing etc. It has to work both ways to be fair, though. If those physical differences push someone into another category (as in boxing, or in a different way in para-olympics) the athlete should compete in that category. It’s either that or scrap categories altogether and do away with female sport, para competition and weight categories in fighting.

Unfortunately for CS, the ‘other category’ would be men’s racing, and she doesn’t qualify for that (although as we have seen, male-bodied athletes find their way onto women’s categories). As men have the advantage over women, it is debatable whether she would stand a chance in a man’s race, though - which is, of course, why it is unfair for male-bodied people to compete in women’s races. It’s really difficult.