Girl Guide leader expelled from post.

Should that be - alleviate - I’ve lost the plot,
Better if I had said - Solve the problem ?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Good post Bordersgirl57.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I think there should be more concern for the majority, ie the girls by birth.
In any case, in my opinion, under 16 is far too young to be acting on self identification as a girl, and assuming rights which put others in a difficult position. They should stay away from all girls groups until they have properly transitioned.
It is wrong that parents are kept in the dark that their daughters may be sharing a room with a person with male attributes, although I do understand about GDPR.

There has been no change to legislation Bordersgirl.

There has been inaccurate advice from trans lobby groups, claiming that it is compulsory to include trans people as their chosen sex, in all situations.

There has been 'training' to staff of schools and to youth organisations, from those same trans lobby groups, telling them that a child's decision on what sex to be must be immediately 'affirmed' and that there is no need to notify the child's parents of this.

Bridgeit yes, there was an attempt to solve the problem and the guide leader then appealed the decision, but GirlGuiding stood firm in expelling her.

So it seems her only option is legal action, as her concern is not simply her own removal as a leader but, much more importantly, the safeguarding of girls in GirlGuiding.

I suggest that anyone here who has granddaughters should make the children's parents aware that GirlGuiding has this policy.

No, FarNorth, as I said, I understand what she did. Still, she knew what the consequences would probably be. It was a courageous risk she took, IMO, but still a risk and, no doubt, she knew it.

But how to solve the problem of boys who identify as girls (and vice versa) while protecting the safety and comfort of those who have always been girls (or boys if the case were vice versa)? That's the dilemma for Girl Guides as for other groups.

It's similar, in a way, to feminist concerns about trans women in women's sports. Men identifying as women, understandably, want to participate in women's sports, but Ive heard that their masculine abilities make it difficult for genetic women to succeed, apparently, and so appear to be setting genetic women back in sports achievements.

The most logical next step in all these cases would be, it seems, to create separate scout/guide groups/sports events for transgender girls/women and transgender boys/men. But then, that would probably be criticized as bigoted and segregationist, even if only intended to ensure everybody's comfort. Very tricky situations. I'm not sure what the eventual solution will be.

I do agree Bordersgirl57 why do we take every new fad to such extremes. The concerns of the majorities are ignored often as Cabbie21 said.

As I understand it Starlady, the woman's main concern is not her own situation but the fact that GirlGuiding has chosen to disregard safeguarding in favour of including males who claim to be girls or women (adult leaders).

If it's all such a confusing puzzle let's not be so inclusive, at the risk of girls' safety, until a sensible answer has been found.

It isn't a fad, sodapop.
There has been a sustained campaign on this, for many years.

The book "Trans Britain - Our Journey from the Shadows" is very informative.
Is is a collection of chapters, mostly by trans people, edited by Christine Burns who is a transwoman.

Having been a Brownie, Guide, Ranger Guide and a young leader in Cub Scouts, I can in some ways appreciate this woman's concerns. However, if the child identifies as female I am not sure I can understand her worries, but it may well come down to her beliefs, or lack of understanding of the situation.
What is wrong is the way that it has affected her daughter.
Unfortunately the Guiding and Scouting movement in many ways have forgotten that the people running their groups are doing so voluntarily, unpaid and often have to spend time on training sessions, giving up their own free time and paying for a lot of things out of their own pockets, so while I understand and agree that there has to be regulations to follow, being this heavy handed will not really encourage the future leaders that they are constantly crying out for!

A girl born with girls' DNA is not the same as a transgender girl. I think the principle of utilitarianism applies here i.e. the greatest happiness of the greatest number. So it's less unfair for the transgender girls to be unprivileged than it is for the DNA girls to be unprivileged.

It would be tough on the transgenders and I'd hope separate arrangements could be made for them. After all it would only be a small, extra ablutions tent : no big deal.

However, if the child identifies as female I am not sure I can understand her worries

What does "identifying as female" change exactly?

If having boys in guides would change the dynamics of guides then PLEASE explain how having boys who self ID as trans wont do exactly that?

With selfID you can identify as female and be fully physically male without any intention of ever changing that (not that you CAN ever change biological sex, but self ID includes people who never plan to take hormones or have surgery. It also includes people who ifentify sporadically as women, say on Tuesdays only)

With self ID men who identify as transwomen can still demonstrate mysogyny and aggression, and do! See this weeks leeds pride and mamchester protests with transwomen using their male physical dominance to intimidate women and silence and exclude them from speaking at pride (as lesbians)

There is no difference between a boy who self IDs as a transgirl and any other boy! Exactly what does it change? Nothing at all!

Either you are in favour of letting boys in or you arent. Pick and chosing "girly" boys only is nonsense

But GG doesn't want anyone to know if a guide, or a leader, is biologically male.

In any case, there would very soon be cries that a separate arrangement is unfair and discriminatory.

Have a read of this story of an 18-year old transgirl who is taking legal action against their high school, because they were asked to change in a separate, enclosed area within the female changing room instead of in the shared female changing area.

womenarehuman.com/man-may-win-lawsuit-demanding-to-change-in-locker-room-beside-high-school-girls-says-aclu/

My post was in reply to Alexa.

Scouts are OPENLY co-ed. Parents know their child is going to a mixed group.
Guides are SECRETLY co-ed. Parents are not allowed to know if their child is going to a mixed group.

Scouts plan and risk assess for mixed groups
Guide leaders ARE NOT ALLOWED to. They are not allowed to treat mixed groups as mixed groups. Or say they should be planned as such.

However, if the child identifies as female I am not sure I can understand her worries

I could identify as a leggy, blonde millionairess but it doesn't make me one. Would you be happy to have a man who says he's a woman in an intimate space with your daughter or granddaughter?

Also, they were told that the parents of the other children didn't need to be told that their daughters would be sharing rooms, shower rooms and toilets with boys who identified as girls. Where the hell was the safeguarding in this?

Look up Jessica Yaniv to see where the UK will be heading if Self ID becomes law.

Leaders are being forced to pretend to parents, children, other leaders and the public that groups which include boys are single sex girl groups.

Take my above example of a girl in care who was previously forced into sex work from a young age who needs extra 1:1 around men due to conditioned sexualisation but is fine in single sex groups.

Now say her group is sharing a camp with a second guides group who have boys in it or male leaders. The first group leaders WILL NOT BE INFORMED that they will be camping with a mixed group. So will not be able to properly prepare and risk assess.

Guides are forcing their leaders to LIE to each other. To parents. To girls who feel uncomfortable changing around boys. And to the public.

Its lies. Transgirls are boys. They should be supported to express themselves as femininely as they like but they are not girls. Liking frocks and "girly" things does not a girl make and guides of all places should know that!

It would be tough on the transgenders and I'd hope separate arrangements could be made for them. After all it would only be a small, extra ablutions tent : no big deal.

How?
Leaders are not allowed to admit that their troop has boys in it.
They are not allowed to discusd even amongst themselves the fact that there are boys in their troop.

This is a comment on that changing room case.

"I was sexually assaulted by a group of high school boys when I participated in a co-ed CHRISTIAN youth camp when I was just 14. The idea that they are all “just kids” so the girls aren’t really under any threat is absurd. I am so disgusted by this idiocy."

Let's look at a different angle.
Let's suppose that a guide happens to have a girl-penis.
Let's suppose that a biologically female guide feels a lesbian attraction to the penis-haver, and that attraction is reciprocated.
Can you imagine any unwelcome consequences of that attraction - for anyone involved - or for the parents who have been completely excluded from the loop?