Calling women by a Mrs title ... & commenting on what they wear.

History, innit?

Judy Bloom I agree with you 100%..i am proud to be a mrs and use my husbands name

I am proud to be addressed as Mrs. Can't see what the problem is.

I did get a nuisance phone call the other day and was addressed as Mam, I politely told her my title was Mrs

I took my husband's name on marriage, and didn't really think about it. I don't know whether I would do it if we married tomorrow, but I don't regret it. I've used that name for longer than I used my father's name.

At work I use a qualification title on documents (in conversation staff and students all use given names), but am happy with either that, 'Given name Surname' or Mrs outside of work. I may have worked for my qualifications, but they aren't relevant at my knitting group .

I am not keen on being asked for a 'christian name' as I am agnostic, but don't get upset about it as I know what it means.
What I am not happy with is when I am referred to as 'Given name' in a professional setting (eg by a doctor or nurse), particularly if they introduce themselves as Dr. Either we are on first name terms or we aren't, and either way it should be reciprocal. I'm more than prepared to correct that if it happens. I realise they are trying to be less stuffy by using given names, but I prefer a professional distance when the occasion demands. I have noticed lately that nurses tend to ask how I want to be addressed, which is a positive development, IMO. I am then perfectly happy to be referred to as Doodle, as I never use my full given name. 'Doodle Middlename Dog' makes me feel like I'm in trouble.

The French Mlle Mme system is much more sensible.

I think that referring to someone as John Smith or Anne Smith implies a degree of familiarity. I wouldn't write or say John Smith unless I knew him. I'd use Mr Smith. With Anne Smith, if I happened to know she was married I'd use Mrs Smith, but if I didn't it would be Anne Smith.

I think that using professional titles in private life is rather daft.

I also think that spouses, when appearing as spouses and not in their own right, should just grin and bear whatever they're called. Very rude to make a fuss. So bad luck Mrs Sunak and bad luck Mr Reeve.

I think yesterday was a bit more than just 'Mrs' though. The dutiful caring wife, hanging onto successful husbands all came across quite old fashioned in itself, in fact I would go as far as to say it seemed very much 1950s but maybe this was done on purpose to give a sense of hope or change, I am not sure as I bought into it to. All the ladies mentioned are successful women in their own right - only one mentioned was doing her actual job

When ordering something online and being given a choice including Dr, Lady, etc I am always very tempted - but haven’t succumbed so far!

Hard to believe that the ‘trousers’ posts have reached 17 pages!

When in the last century I first used Ms by writing it on the blackboard every class at my new school pointed out “you have left the ‘r’ out of Mrs, Miss’!!
I explained that ‘Miss’ indicated an unmarried woman, ‘Mrs’ a married one while Ms was somone who didn't think it necessary to let everyone know her marital status. They got it!

Mostly everyone ,including Doctors etc, ijust use your first name here. I can’t remember being called ‘Mrs.’ for many years. Same applies to the men- always just their first names.

It doesn’t really bother me, in all truth. I liked my dh’s surname more than my father’s name, which in any case, wasn’t even his name, he’d be born with a different name and it got changed along the way.

I’ve been buying my own cars since the 1990’s and have never come across the trouble other women seem to have with car salesmen. Maybe it’s my look or my demeanour but they’ve always been perfectly respectful to me. I know my stuff and drive a hard bargain. In the past ten years there seems to be more female sales persons, anyway, and also mechanics and so on, which is good to see.

JaneJudge

I think yesterday was a bit more than just 'Mrs' though. The dutiful caring wife, hanging onto successful husbands all came across quite old fashioned in itself, in fact I would go as far as to say it seemed very much 1950s but maybe this was done on purpose to give a sense of hope or change, I am not sure as I bought into it to. All the ladies mentioned are successful women in their own right - only one mentioned was doing her actual job

I agree that in this context there is a difference between Angela Rayner and the wives of the incoming and outgoing PMs.

These days (probably since 'call me Tony'?) MPs are often referred to by their given names. Or, in the case of Johnson by one of several that wasn't used by his family and friends. 'Boris' made him seem like 'one of the lads' in a way that didn't really sit right with 'Rishi', and probably won't with Sir Keir Starmer, who is altogether more dignified. Maybe now he's in post he will relax a bit though - time will tell.

The wives were there in that role. In their own professional situations they may or may not use 'Mrs S', but on Thursday and Friday they were the incoming and outgoing residents of 10 Downing Street because of the roles of their husbands. Angela Rayner was there in her own professional capacity, and as she won't be moving into or out of Downing Street her husband didn't need to be filmed or photographed with her.

varian
This has probably long since gone out of fashion, but I was taught that it would be correct to address a married lady as "Mrs John Smith" and address a widow as "Mrs Sarah Smith"
I learnt the same thing.
Also told by my MIL that I couldn’t be just Mrs Go whilst she was alive, but had to be Mrs Hugh Go.
It didn’t bother me.

Angela Rayner was there in her own professional capacity, and as she won't be moving into or out of Downing Street her husband didn't need to be filmed or photographed with her.
I now realise that AR is divorced and good friends with her ex, but my previous point remains. If she had a husband he wouldn't be moving in so wouldn't need to be there as her 'plus one'.

It seems OP is citing two different issues and IMO these should be kept separate.

They are different issues.
It is also common in many cultures / countries NOT to refer to a woman by her husband's 'surname'. It's not universal - many people who spend times in different countries or cultures may use slightly different versions of their names.
I think it best, on an individual basis to ask someone how they like to be called (men as well). Someone in public life has normally indicated how they like to be referred to.
I don't mind a general discussion about clothes - did I like the white collar on the All Blacks' shirt this season? But it often seems a proxy for being rude.

Well said MOnica and others I am a Mrs and proud of it. Ms is androgynous nonsense. I really get offended when random organisations address me as such. (I usually tell them so)!!!

Casdon

Akshata Murty is not by her choice referred to as Mrs Sunak at all as far as I’m aware, she uses her maiden name. Victoria Starmer is Lady Starmer officially, but I highly doubt she would use either that or Mrs Starmer in work, it’s much more likely to be Victoria Starmer. I think using Mrs is shorthand if you don’t know or can’t spell somebody’s Christian name, but it’s not in common use in everyday working life these days.

Why do we persist (some of us) is saying “Christian” names? It’s outdated and just wrong nowadays surely - as if a person has an unpronounceable (to us) first name - which is the term that should be used- then in many cases they might well not be. … er, “Christian “!

I too always use Mrs.
I had a friend who when asked ,once , about her partner ( she had been married 45years) said .”I don’t have one. I don’t dance.”

Urmstongran

Casdon

Akshata Murty is not by her choice referred to as Mrs Sunak at all as far as I’m aware, she uses her maiden name. Victoria Starmer is Lady Starmer officially, but I highly doubt she would use either that or Mrs Starmer in work, it’s much more likely to be Victoria Starmer. I think using Mrs is shorthand if you don’t know or can’t spell somebody’s Christian name, but it’s not in common use in everyday working life these days.

Why do we persist (some of us) is saying “Christian” names? It’s outdated and just wrong nowadays surely - as if a person has an unpronounceable (to us) first name - which is the term that should be used- then in many cases they might well not be. … er, “Christian “!

Fair point Urmstongran, it’s just what is common parlance, but you’re right.

😊

I have a friend who addresses envelopes for birthday cards to me, "Mrs John Smith" not my actual name, but I find it absolutely bizarre that she thinks I want to be known by my husband's Christian name, although I would add that in the card she doesn't actually write happy birthday John thankfully.

I completely understand why women keep their family name these days, in some respects I wish I had, but mine was foreign and it was so often mispronounced at school I was glad to surrender it. The Ms thing came in when I was at work, I think it's entirely appropriate, why should women have to denote their marital status when men don't, in any case it can be unknown as to whether the female addressee is married or not, no such quandary with a "Mr" so imo in that respect Ms is very useful. I often wonder how our female counterparts in continental Europe get around that there are very clear definitions in the Latin based languages, Madame/Madamoiselle, Signora/Signorina, Senora/Senorita. I'm quite sure many don't want their status as to whether they are married or not, to be so transparent.

I know it's a thing now, but I still find it somewhat odd, when any old Tom, Dick or Harry, corporations both big and small write addressing us by our first name as if they're some well acquainted mate.

I believe it’s technically correct to address a married woman using her husband’s Christian name until she is widowed or divorced but I wouldn’t dream of doing it. However I have a friend who has always done it - I can’t retaliate because she’s divorced. How many of us consult etiquette books before addressing an envelope?

I’m always bemused by the idea that taking the surname of a man you’ve chosen to marry is somehow ‘diminishing’ but using the surname of a man you didn’t choose (even if he is your father) is somehow ‘empowering’ I’m not precious about surnames or titles as long as how I’m addressed whether in person or written is respectful.

Visgir1

I just use the handle Mrs as a friendly title when referring to my chums but it's hardly used these days?
My DiL is American she is still known by her "maiden" name, only the school refers to her as Mrs it's easier.

I in fact do have a historical title but I don't use it.

Oooh do tell!

I never liked Mrs and always used Ms until I received my doctorate. And being Jewish, I’ve never had a ‘Christian’ name.